Instead of worshipping with my regular church family this morning, I went across the street to the Wesleyan church in order to worship with my folks. The pastor said something in passing that struck me as extremely interesting. Quickly mentioning the passage in Revelation when Christ breaks the seven seals and opens the scroll, he explained that the seals were kind of “in” the scroll. I’d never really thought about it before, but I’d taken for granted that it was one scroll, with seven seals in a row along the one exposed edge. It really doesn’t make sense, of course, but I’d just never really thought about it.
He explained it something like this: after the first (outer) seal is broken, a portion of the scroll could be unrolled–until another seal in the middle of the page stopped it from being unrolled any further. The first portion was read, then the next seal was broken so the scroll could be unrolled a bit further, until the third seal stopped it–etc., etc. So, what’s so interesting about that? Well, if we understand the scroll as an unfolding of history (of sorts), it means that the last portion of the scroll, the end, had to be written before the first seal was applied–that is, the end had to be written before the beginning even began to be revealed. In other words, history is being revealed, not written, as we progress through time.
For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ (Luke 14, ESV [show] One Sabbath, when he went to dine at the house of a ruler of the Pharisees, they were watching him carefully. [2]And behold, there was a man before him who had dropsy. [3]And Jesus responded to the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath, or not?" [4]But they remained silent. Then he took him and healed him and sent him away. [5]And he said to them, "Which of you, having a son or an ox that has fallen into a well on a Sabbath day, will not immediately pull him out?" [6]And they could not reply to these things. [7]Now he told a parable to those who were invited, when he noticed how they chose the places of honor, saying to them, [8]"When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in a place of honor, lest someone more distinguished than you be invited by him, [9]and he who invited you both will come and say to you, 'Give your place to this person,' and then you will begin with shame to take the lowest place. [10]But when you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place, so that when your host comes he may say to you, 'Friend, move up higher.' Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you. [11]For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." [12]He said also to the man who had invited him, "When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. [13]But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, [14]and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just." [15]When one of those who reclined at table with him heard these things, he said to him, "Blessed is everyone who will eat bread in the kingdom of God!" [16]But he said to him, "A man once gave a great banquet and invited many. [17]And at the time for the banquet he sent his servant to say to those who had been invited, 'Come, for everything is now ready.' [18]But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, 'I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it. Please have me excused.' [19]And another said, 'I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them. Please have me excused.' [20]And another said, 'I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.' [21]So the servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house became angry and said to his servant, 'Go out quickly to the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor and crippled and blind and lame.' [22]And the servant said, 'Sir, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room.' [23]And the master said to the servant, 'Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled. [24]For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste my banquet.'" [25]Now great crowds accompanied him, and he turned and said to them, [26]"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. [27]Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. [28]For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? [29]Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, [30]saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.' [31]Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? [32]And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. [33]So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple. [34]"Salt is good, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? [35]It is of no use either for the soil or for the manure pile. It is thrown away. He who has ears to hear, let him hear." (ESV)
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Plain and simple: God has a plan. He planned his work, now he’s working his plan. That doesn’t seem so complicated to me…
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That is just plain cool. Thanks, Aron.
Awesome. I had never noticed that either. (there goes any plans I had to becoming an open theist.)
By the way, I love the new design of your site.
Thats really cool. It makes it easier to believe God always has a plan.
I’m pretty sure, maybe I’m mistaken, that Pastor Rick was speaking of the scorll as the title deed to the earth, not it’s history. Your citation of Luke 14 [show] One Sabbath, when he went to dine at the house of a ruler of the Pharisees, they were watching him carefully. [2]And behold, there was a man before him who had dropsy. [3]And Jesus responded to the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath, or not?" [4]But they remained silent. Then he took him and healed him and sent him away. [5]And he said to them, "Which of you, having a son or an ox that has fallen into a well on a Sabbath day, will not immediately pull him out?" [6]And they could not reply to these things.
should actually be based in the context of the 33 verse, “So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.” In other words Christ is demanding that the will be surrendered to Him, in order to be saved finally and eternally. See also verse 27 in the same passage.
[7]Now he told a parable to those who were invited, when he noticed how they chose the places of honor, saying to them, [8]"When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in a place of honor, lest someone more distinguished than you be invited by him, [9]and he who invited you both will come and say to you, 'Give your place to this person,' and then you will begin with shame to take the lowest place. [10]But when you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place, so that when your host comes he may say to you, 'Friend, move up higher.' Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you. [11]For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
[12]He said also to the man who had invited him, "When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. [13]But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, [14]and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just."
[15]When one of those who reclined at table with him heard these things, he said to him, "Blessed is everyone who will eat bread in the kingdom of God!" [16]But he said to him, "A man once gave a great banquet and invited many. [17]And at the time for the banquet he sent his servant to say to those who had been invited, 'Come, for everything is now ready.' [18]But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, 'I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it. Please have me excused.' [19]And another said, 'I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them. Please have me excused.' [20]And another said, 'I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.' [21]So the servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house became angry and said to his servant, 'Go out quickly to the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor and crippled and blind and lame.' [22]And the servant said, 'Sir, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room.' [23]And the master said to the servant, 'Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled. [24]For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste my banquet.'"
[25]Now great crowds accompanied him, and he turned and said to them, [26]"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. [27]Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. [28]For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? [29]Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, [30]saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.' [31]Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? [32]And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. [33]So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.
[34]"Salt is good, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? [35]It is of no use either for the soil or for the manure pile. It is thrown away. He who has ears to hear, let him hear." (ESV)
Yes, you’re correct: my observation had nothing to do with what Pastor Rick was actually preaching about. It’s just an interesting fact that a scroll such as that one must be completed before it’s sealed up. And, that this fact accurately represents history is clear from other passages of Scripture where God says something like “I am Yahweh Elohim,” (further defining what it means to be divine by appending the clarification: “Declaring the end from the beginning, and the beginning from the end,” etc. The very point of Jesus’s parable is that it’s obvious that men don’t set out on some significant undertaking without counting the cost beforehand. (Ever heard the phrase, “measure twice; cut once”?) I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to state that, since it’s so obvious that if at least humans are this wise, how much more wise is God in his building and redeeming of the entire cosmic infrastructure of heaven and earth–”and the fullness thereof”? Surely God’s thoughts and ways are higher than ours? See also James 2 [show] My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. [2]For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, [3]and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, "You sit here in a good place," while you say to the poor man, "You stand over there," or, "Sit down at my feet," [4]have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? [5]Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him? [6]But you have dishonored the poor man. Are not the rich the ones who oppress you, and the ones who drag you into court? [7]Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called?
, where humans are chastised for presuming to know the future–not becuase “such boasting is evil” in general, but because we’re wrong about it–and we’re wrong about it precisely because we’re not God. God makes promises and predictions and guarantees about the future not on ‘educated guesses,’ but because he’s the Author of History. It’s His..Story. And he knew the whole story before he began writing it, building it, redeeming it, telling it, and interpreting it. He knew the end from the beginning and he knows it all, unquestionably, beforehand, without exception. To think otherwise is to confound the Creator/creation ditinction – for He is transcendant over his creation–not bound by its time-space limitations. (Partly because he’s immaterial: time and space are boundaries only for the material, as quantuum physics informs us. [To oversimplify:] Time measures the movement of matter through space. No matter, or no movement, then no time. Think of how we portray time stopping in a movie…everything stops. Time is a byproduct, a function, of matter moving through space. But I digress.)
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[8]If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well. [9]But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. [10]For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. [11]For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [12]So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. [13]For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
[14]What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? [15]If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, [16]and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? [17]So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
[18]But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. [19]You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder! [20]Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? [21]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? [22]You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; [23]and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"--and he was called a friend of God. [24]You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. [25]And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? [26]For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. (ESV)
Secondly, yes, Christ does demand that the will be surrendered to him. (And for the ‘background conversation,’ both Cism and Aism hold to that.) Unfortunately, mortal enemies aren’t too fond of surrendering. As I’ve said before: dead enemies don’t need options; we need a flat-out miracle. Like Lazarus. Unless we’re born again, we cannot enter–let alone even see the Kingdom-choice before us. And like Lazarus, when we’re truly alive, we can’t help but choose–because we can’t help but want–fresh air. (We always choose what we want most.) But bottom line, for that to happen, “we must be born again.” Until then, we’re cold, dead, hard, blind–and in active, intense, and willful opposition to God. (See Romans 1 [show] Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, [2]which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, [3]concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh [4]and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, [5]through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, [6]including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,
[7]To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[8]First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world. [9]For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you [10]always in my prayers, asking that somehow by God's will I may now at last succeed in coming to you. [11]For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you-- [12]that is, that we may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith, both yours and mine. [13]I want you to know, brothers, that I have often intended to come to you (but thus far have been prevented), in order that I may reap some harvest among you as well as among the rest of the Gentiles. [14]I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. [15]So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.
[16]For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. [17]For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."
[18]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. [19]For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. [20]For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. [21]For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [22]Claiming to be wise, they became fools, [23]and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
[24]Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, [25]because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
[26]For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; [27]and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
[28]And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. [29]They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, [30]slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, [31]foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. [32]Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. (ESV)
Nice to have you here, my friend!
Thanks for responding Aaron, actually I feel I need to apologize. I realize that the way I came across could have been taken as way to blunt, even condescending. I’m coming off a thorough debate with Luke on the isms and I guess it spilled over a bit. Anyway, I see your point in that the history of the earth is God’s story. In fact I remember Hal Lindsey stating that time (obviously) is one of God’s creations, therefore, it would follow that He had a plan for time as it progressed.
No, no brother – not at all! I love the lively discussion; even more so when it’s concise and to the point (read: like yours, unlike mine). No worries whatsoever. Please stop by and speak up as often as you can!